Curse

daky · Dec 29, 2006, 07:35 AM // 07:35

My thinking on the matter is this (profit wise)

one run with traps with aatxe included roughly 1hour + 10 or so min.
three runs with only smites roughly 1 hour + 10 or so min.

If you ask me skipping the aatxe may lose you a possible ecto, but by using different builds (rt/me or r/me) and just killing smites you'll come out ahead money wise.

Don't get me wrong I love trapping, but I find it to be slow. When the whole reason I'm farming is to get money as fast as I can.

ColaManiac · Dec 29, 2006, 08:17 AM // 08:17

it isn't that slow... you have to trap against 9 atxe groups, 2 darkness groups (if you take 2 groups at one time), 10 smities groups and 2-4 coldfires... if you lay full set of traps on each group it should takes 100 sec per group (smites could go down on 75 sec, never tried echo trapping so i dunno). So it should take around 35 minutes + time used on running + mistakes.

! think 50 minutes is all you need to clear the UW... but we still need faster way to get down those atxes and smites... Maybe we get pure damage trap when GW4 comes out or a 90% evade stance to lure those smites all together, who knows. ^^

and this is the same build that the other guy posted but deleted after a while... right? ^^

i'm still afraid about luring those atxes and darknesses with this build, as atxes have 25% constant speed boost and darknesses 33%. I understand that you can always lure them using bow or staff but gathering them all together might be hard... but meh... that's just me... never tried this build, just asking...
...
...
i realy have to stop using these"..."...

daky · Dec 29, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

I would love more damage based traps! Was happy to see one that caused daze...until I saw that it did no damage other then the applied condition

.

Shame they don't give us an energy giving trap

After all we do have one that heals.

ColaManiac · Dec 29, 2006, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Reviving pool [elite]
cost 25e, rec 60 sec, act t: 6

for 10 seconds, every ally on the area is ressed with 10...50% max health and 10...25% energy every 2 seconds, this skill is interrupted easily.

just a idea but energysising spring would help to make a great support ranger...

Eva Gal · Dec 29, 2006, 11:07 AM // 11:07

A perfect Aatxe/Grasping run lasts exactly 20 minutes or even less. This run includes all the Aatxe groups in the first room as well as those on the way to the Ice Wastes. In order to complete the run in 20 minutes, you'll have to lure all the Grasping Darknesses (three groups will spawn when you take the 'Clear the Chamber' quest) at once, and you'll have to lure the two Aatxes and the last Grasping group that patrols outside the starting room together.
To kill a single group of Aatxes (2, 3 or 4) takes exactly 80-85 seconds when done properly. In less than 70 seconds you can lay 9 Dust Traps if you use Arcane Echo to copy Echo. With a decent 'walltrapping' you'll be able to kill the Aatxes at the first attempt almost always.

A Smite run lasts around 20-30 minutes since it depends a lot on the spawn. With some practice you can kill two groups of Smites easily enough ('walltrap' and run around with Whirling Defense to gather them together).

This build uses the same skills as the one described by Drupal; the only difference is that you should swap Flame Trap for Arcane Echo.

Skill order:
Ew; Qz; Sq; Arcane Echo; Echo; Dust; copy of Echo; copy of Dust; copy of Dust; Barbed; Dust; copy of Dust; copy of Dust; Sq; Dust; Barbed; Echo; Dust; copy of Dust; Barbed.

Attributes:
16 Wilderness Survival (superior rune); 13 Expertise (minor rune) and 6 Beast Mastery (superior rune).

Health isn't realy that important since Aatxes can kill you in three hits even if you're at full HP. Superior Bm is necessary because of (my) low mana pool. With 6 in Bm your Ew will last 78 seconds, so when it expires you will have around 15 seconds to lure before the traps go off.

Hope it helps.

drupal · Dec 29, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Hi Eva, thx for joining =)
I'll have to try the new build. Thx for the guide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daky

If you ask me skipping the aatxe may lose you a possible ecto, but by using different builds (rt/me or r/me) and just killing smites you'll come out ahead money wise.

Probably it's just me but I do have problems to get an ecto in 2/3man teams. Sometimes no ecto drops with the solo I always had at least one ecto. That's the reason why I solo.

Marverick · Dec 30, 2006, 12:34 AM // 00:34

For some reason in the 3-Aataxe groups 2 of them always manage to hit me through Whirling and kill me in one hit...

Also why not use Trapper's Speed instead of SQ? 25% on recharge and 25% on activation. And it recharges in 20 seconds so you can almost keep it up permanently.

Eva Gal · Dec 30, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Sample video (it works for any Aatxe/Grasping/Smite group):

http://files.filefront.com/solo_aatx.../fileinfo.html

drupal · Dec 30, 2006, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

For some reason in the 3-Aataxe groups 2 of them always manage to hit me through Whirling and kill me in one hit...

Sometimes it happens that they hit you through WD. But if you lure them properly, they don't get that close to you and if you go behind the traps, they're blinded before they can "touch" you and that means 90% evasion chance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Also why not use Trapper's Speed instead of SQ? 25% on recharge and 25% on activation. And it recharges in 20 seconds so you can almost keep it up permanently.

It's an energy issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eva Gal

Sample video (it works for any Aatxe/Grasping/Smite group):

http://files.filefront.com/solo_aatx.../fileinfo.html

Really nice. I tried it too but I'm a bit afraid of getting hit with 410hp

btw, really nice video you made there

I'll update the thread later, I still have some work left.

blackbird71 · Jan 08, 2007, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by daky

My thinking on the matter is this (profit wise)

one run with traps with aatxe included roughly 1hour + 10 or so min.
three runs with only smites roughly 1 hour + 10 or so min.

If you ask me skipping the aatxe may lose you a possible ecto, but by using different builds (rt/me or r/me) and just killing smites you'll come out ahead money wise.

Don't get me wrong I love trapping, but I find it to be slow. When the whole reason I'm farming is to get money as fast as I can.

Well, I was curious and so I did some math on this theory. I personally haven't spent much time in the UW, so I can't say whether this idea is correct or not, but I can try to explain the conditions that would make it correct.

WARNING!!!: Complex and boring math to follow. If you wish to avoid this, please skip to the final two paragraphs in this post!

Assuming that it's correct that you can do 3 smite runs in the time it takes to do one smite/grasp/aatxe run, and using your statement that the purpose is to "get money as fast as I can," and assuming that ectos are one of the better ways to measure or amass wealth, we can use the following:

The number of ectos obtained will depend on two quantities, 1) the ecto drop rate of each creature and 2) the total number of creatures killed during the time for one smite/grasp/aatxe run or 3 smite runs.

According to guildwiki, aatxes have a 4% chance of dropping an ecto, and smites have a less than 2% chance (see http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Bladed_Aatxe and http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Smite_Crawler). For the sake of simplicity, we will temporarily assume smites have a 2% chance, giving aatxes twice the chance of droppng ectos as smites. Grasps drop no ectos, so we'll leave them out of the equation for now.

Given this ratio, in order to come out even doing the two different runs, while doing the 3 smite runs, you would have to kill a total of 3 times as many smites as you would kill the total number of smites plus aatxes in the smite/grasp/aatxe run. For example, if you would kill 5 aatxes and 5 smites in one s/g/a run, you would have to kill 30 smites in 3 smite runs to have the same chance for ecto drops (you have to kill one smite for every smite that would be killed, and two smites for every one aatxe that would be killed.

Now, with our example, in order to kill 30 smites, it would have to be 10 smites per run. The problem with this is that in this example, we're only encountering 5 smites per run (yes, I know these numbers are unrealistic, they're just easy to work with for now as an example). So what it comes down to is the ratio of smites:aatxes that can be found in a single run. By the example, if there are an even number of both, the 3 smite run loses out. So lets say there are twice as many smites as aatxes in a single run, 5 aatxes and 10 smites. This means you would need to kill 45 smites in 3 smite runs, but there are only 10 each run, for a total of 30. If it were 5 aatxes and 50 smites per run, then you would need to kill 165, but would only have 150. The difference is less, but still there. We are approaching a limit, but we will never reach it. No matter the ratio of smites:aatxes, as long as there is one aatxe which is killed, 3 smite runs can not have the same probability of ecto drops as one s/g/a run. The only exception to this would be if it is possible to kill more smites in a single smite run than you can kill in a single s/g/a run, and as I said before I'm not experienced enough to know if this is the case, but it seems to me that an s/g/a run would give you access to more area of the UW than a smite run, and possibly give access to more smites. I could be wrong, but at the very least I think it safe to assume that there are at least an equal number of smites in an s/g/a run as there are in a smite run, if not more.

Now, lets bring back some of those complicating factors. Remember the drop rate of ectos for smites isn't actually 2%, it's <2%. This means you would actually have to kill more smites in a 3 smite run than 3 times the kills from the s/g/a run. For example, if it's actually 1.5%, then you wold have to kill about 3.7 times as many smites. Also, remember the grasps. In the course of an s/g/a run, there are also a number of grasps being killed, who while not dropping ectos, they are dropping other potentially valuable items. If we expand the measure of wealth to include drops other than ectos, you may be making more kills with the 3 smite runs, for a total of more drops, but with killing the same number of smites plus aatxes plus grasps, I'd assume you're not getting that many more drops, and most likely not enough to counter the extra ectos from the s/g/a run. Oh, also, according to drupal, you will also encounter a number of Dying Nightmares in the s/g/a run, those will add to the drop pool. Of course, I plead ignorance, because you may run into the same nightmares in a smite run, I just don't know.

For those of you who wanted to skip the math, it's safe to read everything from here down:

Ok, to sum everything up, assuming ectos as a helpful measurement of wealth gained on an UW run, the only way that three smite runs can be better than a smite/grasp/aatxe run made in the same amount of time is if it is possible to kill a significantly larger number of smites in a single smite run than the number of smites you would kill in a single smite/grasp/aatxe run. If you left ectos out of the equation completely and just based it on other loot drops, the two would be fairly close. However, under any other circumstances, the smite/grasp/aatxe run beats 3 smite runs hands down as it will net you more money in the same amount of time.

Whew, I can't believe I actually typed that all, to everyone who read it, thanks for your patience. I'm sorry if I lost or bored anyone, I just get to thinking about things and have to figure them out. I hope this analysis is actually useful to someone, if not, well, there goes a half hour of my life I'll never get back lol. At least I'll know how to spend my time in the UW.

sh4d0whunta · Jan 08, 2007, 04:50 AM // 04:50

I have never been in underworld only fissure of woe so when i saw the title of this thread i was like hell yeah so thnx for all that information you typed up there.Now im going to be going to the underworld soon on my ranger

darrengordon · Jan 08, 2007, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Nice to see other people are still trapping, good onya, it may not be the fastest method but is definatly one of the safest and i think most fun. I have to say i tend to dual if doing it as i like the company. If ya into dualling it is consierably faster you can pull on the 30 sec mark and i ya use the build i posted a while a go "speed trapping" i think it was called you can keep laying and pulling every 30-40 secs as you dont need to wait for spirit recharge.
The skill with trapping is purly pulling, the first room you can do in 3 pulls then pull all of the grasps another pull for the next room, 1 more for the first grp of smited then where the colds are you can pull the buld of that room in one go around 24 smites i think.
Anyways have fun guys.

Sir Mad · Jan 09, 2007, 05:08 PM // 17:08

I just wanted to post a big thanks to both Drupal and Eva for the builds. I hadn't been to UW since the release of Nightfall, and I had been working as of late on a ranger solo build able to kill the aatxes. I didn't want to trap. I did that a long time ago (dual trapping, mainly) and got bored of it. Yet, after about 50K lost to pay the entrance of UW to test the different builds I had in mind, I have never able to tank even 2 aatxes durably. My best results were to be able to kill the lone wandering one, but I always got killed by the groups of two after a while - sometimes they had only 20% hp left, but I've never been able to make it.

All these attempts with a ranger (that's my main char, which is why I really wanted - and still do - to win this challenge), several builds with other classes came to my mind, and paid again for new attempts with a sin, and today with my ele (full run uncluding aatxes). Again, my best hopes were ruined by an incredible bad luck with Nightmares.

I was really bored and about to take a break from the UW for a while, when I browsed this forum and decided to give a try to this build. I know I swore I wouldn't trap again, but heck, I still did. 1st attempt, and no bad surprise: everything worked perfectly as described. The aatxes were nuked in a matter of second, and I'm going to make my way towards the smites.

Just thanks for making me able to take revenge. I think I'm going to do a few runs before I try something else - it's good to easilly nuke buggers who have killed you so many times, and to laugh at nightmares when they pop

Warrior Insomnia · Jan 09, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Hey there,

Thanks SO much for this build it worked amazingly for me. The first cow i killed dropped an ecto lol but didnt get to make it to the smites cos a virus scan update popped up asking me to restart and in my excitement pressed yes by accident lol.

Quick question if you have the time. The cows always seem to run away even when im standing behind the traps, two die but one survives. Is it therefore vital that i put the traps near a wall to ensure they all die? I also sometimes find that when i lure them they sort of flank me, as in run around the traps meaning i have to stand on the traps to blind them meaning they have a higer chance of surviving. Any hints or tips would be much appreciated

Thanks for reading.

Andy

Valeria · Jan 11, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23

just when i thought i'm going into the UW with my 2 trapper heroes i read about this solo build. Working sometimes but the luring is still difficult. Is there a way to get the Quest in the Village and kill the angry ghosts by trapping? I would like to get a UW spider for one of my heroes.

since i don't want to use a second superior rune (i have only 1 set of armor + the 4 masks with different superior runes) i have only
11+1 expertise and
5+1 beastmastery
i can still set all traps and still have 1 energy when done

so far i couldn't reach the ice wastes. The aatxes behind the door ran around and spotted me before i was done with the traps.

Sir Mad · Jan 11, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

@ Warrior Insomnia: step back a lil further behind your traps when you have lured the aatxes, it should fix the problem (they won't have time to run back). You should also try try trap near a wall or somewhere where the environment blocks a direction, so you can control their path to some extent when they run and make sure they stand on the trap long enough. If one succeed in running, it will be low in health, bleeding (which stops its natural hp regen), burning, blind, and crippled. Generally, you have time to drop a couple of traps, which should be enough to kill it, so just stay and do it (eventually step back again if it's no longer blind). If you think a couple of traps won't be enough to kill it, run back and do the whole traping again.

drupal · Jan 12, 2007, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warrior Insomnia

Quick question if you have the time. The cows always seem to run away even when im standing behind the traps, two die but one survives. Is it therefore vital that i put the traps near a wall to ensure they all die? I also sometimes find that when i lure them they sort of flank me, as in run around the traps meaning i have to stand on the traps to blind them meaning they have a hig
er chance of surviving. Any hints or tips would be much appreciated

Hi Andy,

just listen to Sir Mad

don't stop at the exact point where your traps are, go a bit backward. They will blew up, if it fails run behind a NPC and safely trap him

btw, you can trap everything with this build. Just switch Natural Stride for Whirling and you can run to the cave and lure with it.

drupal · Jan 15, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Someone posted it on gamewiki

And Eva posted a new guide: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10101741

Good luck at farming!

Ral Hanzo · Jan 16, 2007, 05:44 AM // 05:44

I tried this build and found it to be more effective and safer than the double echo build (Archane echo with Echo), took me a while to get the luring right, but made up for cost by getting 3 ectos in 2 succesive runs.

Great job man !!!

blackbird71 · Mar 25, 2007, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Well, I come back to this thread a couple months later and a little more experienced. I've been using Eva's version of the build and it's worked great for me. It's opened up a whole new area of the game I'd never explored before, so thanks for giving me the chance. Hopefully I can repay the favor by sharing some of my experiences with the build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warrior Insomnia

Quick question if you have the time. The cows always seem to run away even when im standing behind the traps, two die but one survives. Is it therefore vital that i put the traps near a wall to ensure they all die? I also sometimes find that when i lure them they sort of flank me, as in run around the traps meaning i have to stand on the traps to blind them meaning they have a higer chance of surviving. Any hints or tips would be much appreciated

Thanks for reading.

Andy

I've had this happen to me a few times, and what I've learned is that when it does happen, don't panic. The heavily wounded aatxe will come back to you if you don't run off, and with Whirling Defense still up, you can quickly drop another Dust Trap to keep him blind and finish him off. I'll usually throw down another Barbed Trap for good measure, but if he's close to death at all, one trap should do the trick. If not, then do as drupal says and run for the NPCs!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valeria

just when i thought i'm going into the UW with my 2 trapper heroes i read about this solo build. Working sometimes but the luring is still difficult. Is there a way to get the Quest in the Village and kill the angry ghosts by trapping? I would like to get a UW spider for one of my heroes.

since i don't want to use a second superior rune (i have only 1 set of armor + the 4 masks with different superior runes) i have only
11+1 expertise and
5+1 beastmastery
i can still set all traps and still have 1 energy when done

so far i couldn't reach the ice wastes. The aatxes behind the door ran around and spotted me before i was done with the traps.

First off, you're really better off with a 13 in expertise rather than 12 because of the energy saved. The Superior Beastmastery rune is really worth it. I usually do this by getting an extra pair of gloves or boots to hold the second sup rune as they're the cheapest part of the armor, and a sup BM rune doesn't usually cost that much. If you're going to trap regularly, go ahead and make the investment, you'll be glad you did.

One other tip: I've found that once you're used to the build and can work fast, I can slip in an extra Barbed Trap at the start of the chain (in Eva's build, after the first SQ and before the AE). You have to be quick in moving on to the AE->E->DT chain, because that first DT has to be triggered soon enough that when you come back around to it for the third time (the original DT, not any of the echoed copies), you have to be able to lay it just before QZ ends, otherwise when it's time to do the last echo, you'll be waiting for DT to recharge and it gives you less time to pull.

Anyway, thanks again to drupal and Eva Gal for their work, and have fun trapping everyone!